Curse

Jecht Scye · Apr 22, 2009, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This thread illustrates perfectly why this topic is extremely delicate. Everyone has good and bad arguments on both sides of the "fence". But Anet has to be this "fence" and bear the consequences of their choice on these policies. Many players only see their side of the argument, each participant of this thread has some kind of "logic" to base its argument on. But there isn't a sound and formal logic that can be used as a common ground for a foolproof policy, hence the problem of finding a middle ground, that will undoubtedly lead to making some players angry. People who (rigthfully) blame Anet for stupid bans should also highlight the fact that they reversed some of these bans.

I disagree. This would be a non-issue if there was no policing policy beyond the initial name filter when you're first naming your character or guild. This type of topic would disappear.

Fril Estelin · Apr 22, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jecht Scye

This type of topic would disappear.

So would a lot of GW players, the offended ones. But it's their fault, right? They should obviously learn to cope, that's the basis of a tolerant society!

/end sarcasm

Targren · Apr 22, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

So would a lot of GW players, the offended ones. But it's their fault, right? They should obviously learn to cope, that's the basis of a tolerant society!

/end sarcasm

You're being sarcastic, but yes, that's actually exactly the case. You cannot preach tolerance and then advocate intolerance towards those who do not conform, without losing any moral high ground to utter hypocrisy. It's like trying to legislate against stupidity.

Tullzinski · Apr 22, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

It's like trying to legislate against stupidity.

You mean like this:

The Arizona Stupid Motorist Law

http://www.arizona-vacation-planner....orist-law.html

Targren · Apr 22, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

You mean like this:

The Arizona Stupid Motorist Law

http://www.arizona-vacation-planner....orist-law.html

Wow. Just... wow. *facepalms*

Although that law is more about punishing stupidity, which I am all for.

I love this part...

Quote:

# Call 911 if you or someone else is trapped in water. Don’t put off calling for help because you are afraid of getting a ticket under the Stupid Motorist Law.

HawkofStorms · Apr 22, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

You're being sarcastic, but yes, that's actually exactly the case. You cannot preach tolerance and then advocate intolerance towards those who do not conform, without losing any moral high ground to utter hypocrisy. It's like trying to legislate against stupidity.

They aren't preaching tolerance though.

They don't have to. They are a company. They own the product. They can do whatever they want with it.

Junato · Apr 22, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Okaaaayyy.....

Doesn't Anet have the knowledge that common folks like us wouldn't know anything in respect to what names would be in another language. I have to say that they must have management issues over there. A bias more like.

Why don't they set up a basis in respect to language. For example, the polish case we all live in Canada and America mostly and they need to know that in order to have a system to realize that the common folks in America and Canada are not polish. Its a minority threat.

They are basically nitpicking the possible offensive words in the game. I am surprised that the 6 letters in assassin is not blocked. I also notice that for some long words a part of the word has an offensive word in it and they block it.

I have got a solution for them to wise up. Ask for peoples ages and reflect that on the basis of filtering offensive words.

---edit---

to the guy that explained the stupid motorist law, that isn't the stupidest law I have heard... One I heard is that if you are caught going to china with gum you can go to jail.

Stupid laws in Canada -http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/469049/stupid_laws_in_canada.html

Fitz Rinley · Apr 22, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Hasn't the history shown us that it's the attitudes of expansion and globalisation that lead to war?

There is a difference between light-side capitalism and dark-side capitalism. Expansionism can also mean inclusion rather than exclusion and oppression. Because left-minded philosophies reject ethical foundation, seeking to obtain Utopia by eliminating the effort to do right, they are incapable of accepting there is difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

You're being sarcastic, but yes, that's actually exactly the case. You cannot preach tolerance and then advocate intolerance towards those who do not conform, without losing any moral high ground to utter hypocrisy. It's like trying to legislate against stupidity.

They aren't preaching tolerance though.
They don't have to. They are a company. They own the product. They can do whatever they want with it.

They are free to push and support intolerance, bigotry, chauvinism, and prejudice as much as they like. They are free to savage their customer base by holding them accountable to the impossible. They do have that choice, lawfully or unlawfully, to do whatever they feel like. Socially, they do not have that choice.
As soon as it becomes known that ANet has chosen to promote intolerance, support cultural bigotry as a means to eliminating oponents you cannot beat, and allow random griefing of players by holding them accountable for things they cannot know ahead of time, then this game will be on its way out and so will NC West.

Tolerance and inclusion is the international standard to avoid the repeat of WW I and WW II. With the exception of one segment of fundamentalists in the Third World, that effort has been successful in avoiding atleast one Nuclear Holocaust and heating up a cold war. Tolerance is the Ethical standard by which all governing bodies, including corporations, are now accountable both socially, and in majority lawfully. So, while there may not exist any specific law requiring they actively promote tolerance, as a social vector of society, it is mandatory they do so. Their income will rely much more on toleration than the lack of it.

cataphract · Apr 23, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Tolerance and inclusion is the international standard to avoid the repeat of WW I and WW II.

Too bad no one's practicing them, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

With the exception of one segment of fundamentalists in the Third World,

What about the fundamentalists in the "first world" countries armed to their teeth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

..that effort has been successful in avoiding atleast one Nuclear Holocaust and heating up a cold war.

It was the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction that kept the world away from a nuclear exchange between warring sides. Not tolerance, not inclusion, not tree-hugging hippies but first and second strike capabilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Tolerance is the Ethical standard by which all governing bodies, including corporations, are now accountable both socially, and in majority lawfully.

Tell that to Africa and the Middle East.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

So, while there may not exist any specific law requiring they actively promote tolerance, as a social vector of society, it is mandatory they do so. Their income will rely much more on toleration than the lack of it.

Their income has been just fine over the last several centuries and - this may be shocking to you - it has not been based on tolerance. It was more along the lines of enslavement, plunder, war, colonisation and outright occupations.

Lonesamurai · Apr 23, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Ok, as Tycho himself said today, he and everyone, has a capacity to offend that sometimes they just can't turn off...

Oh come on... it is funny in a "it really shouldn't be" way...

... please don't lynch me...

Tullzinski · Apr 23, 2009, 11:29 AM // 11:29

@Lone - That is funny. Of course some think I am a bit twisted anyway.

Guess I am not going to get an answer on being able to clean up you own accounts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Wow. Just... wow. *facepalms*

Although that law is more about punishing stupidity, which I am all for.

I love this part...

hehe...amazing that it has to be stated, but you know that someone did not call for help because they broke the law. Compounding the stupidity. Need a law to make it against the law not to call for help if you break the law...Where does it end?

pumpkin pie · Apr 23, 2009, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This thread illustrates perfectly why this topic is extremely delicate. Everyone has good and bad arguments on both sides of the "fence". But Anet has to be this "fence" and bear the consequences of their choice on these policies. Many players only see their side of the argument, each participant of this thread has some kind of "logic" to base its argument on. But there isn't a sound and formal logic that can be used as a common ground for a foolproof policy, hence the problem of finding a middle ground, that will undoubtedly lead to making some players angry. People who (rigthfully) blame Anet for stupid bans should also highlight the fact that they reversed some of these bans.

make the player who report fight the player they want to report in a 1 vs 1 pvp match, 3 matches to decide who wins/loose, winners gets to decide

Red Sonya · Apr 23, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

There is a difference between light-side capitalism and dark-side capitalism. Expansionism can also mean inclusion rather than exclusion and oppression. Because left-minded philosophies reject ethical foundation, seeking to obtain Utopia by eliminating the effort to do right, they are incapable of accepting there is difference.

They are free to push and support intolerance, bigotry, chauvinism, and prejudice as much as they like. They are free to savage their customer base by holding them accountable to the impossible. They do have that choice, lawfully or unlawfully, to do whatever they feel like. Socially, they do not have that choice.
As soon as it becomes known that ANet has chosen to promote intolerance, support cultural bigotry as a means to eliminating oponents you cannot beat, and allow random griefing of players by holding them accountable for things they cannot know ahead of time, then this game will be on its way out and so will NC West.

Tolerance and inclusion is the international standard to avoid the repeat of WW I and WW II. With the exception of one segment of fundamentalists in the Third World, that effort has been successful in avoiding atleast one Nuclear Holocaust and heating up a cold war. Tolerance is the Ethical standard by which all governing bodies, including corporations, are now accountable both socially, and in majority lawfully. So, while there may not exist any specific law requiring they actively promote tolerance, as a social vector of society, it is mandatory they do so. Their income will rely much more on toleration than the lack of it.

Do you know how many threads and people have been "PREACHING" the sky is falling and the end of Anet/NCsoft since the beginning of GW? lol A handful of malcontents is not going to ruin GW past, present or future. They've tried and tried and tried and GW is still very popular and still very much going strong. Did you read O'Briens letter?

As I've said before most and the majority of people already obey the rules and don't even pay attention to things like this. So what you get a slap on the hand and a 72 hour ban for an inappropriate name. Yah just make a new one and go about your playing business until the next time you get banned for something. It's not the end of the world to get a 72 hour ban. Geesh some people.

FalconDance · Apr 23, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Anet is sad, just sad. Support is so worried right now about super secret words embedded in names that might mean something awful to someone in a foreign (to the originator) language that they're totally ignoring the new morons naming characters in totally inappropriate ways.

I mean, obviously these folks are trying to see how long they can get away with a toon named "Molesting Gwen" or "Castratus Tu Padre" or Rawwr Gasm[laid].

Seriously, leave the rest of us alone and go after these little kiddies who think they're so cute and bullet-proof. (And I am not equating age with the word kiddies, either.)

Fitz Rinley · Apr 23, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Tolerance and inclusion is the international standard to avoid the repeat of WW I and WW II.

Too bad no one's practicing them, eh?

It is precisely because they are practiced that you have a basis to compare against. It is precisely because these first world nations, armed to the teeth, practice self-monitoring that these other nations continued to exist at all. It is the moral structure of Western fundamentalism that created the foundation for this moral value in the first place. You ought to read past revisionist appeasement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

It was the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction that kept the world away from a nuclear exchange between warring sides. Not tolerance, not inclusion, not tree-hugging hippies but first and second strike capabilities.

Nice Marxist Dialectic, but his approach, like Hegel's, was only a part of the picture. You are forced to invalidate the effect of inclusion in order to support a leftist style cynicism that is an incomplete part of the equation. While no moral choice is effected when it is unaffordable, no action is asserted that is not equally morally justifiable with the information available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Tell that to Africa and the Middle East.

Tell them what? It is their own inter-tribal and inter-cultural animosity that is destroying them and keeping them from being profitable, by both their own standards and ours. Consider custom practices that inhibit trade and make contracts impossible to fulfill, practices of genocide and slavery that predate the existence of the west by Millenia, and outdated feudalistic systems equating to gang warfare abandoned by Western civilization centuries ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Their income has been just fine over the last several centuries and - this may be shocking to you - it has not been based on tolerance. It was more along the lines of enslavement, plunder, war, colonisation and outright occupations.

Perhaps you dont know very much about the history of empire in Africa. As one example look at the expansion of Meroe Egyptian Culture into West Africa forming the Hausa, the continuing slave trade of Germanics sold into African nations as slaves on trade lanes established by the Carthaginians and Romans. Perhaps you would like to explain how a Carthaginian deity shows up in Irish Myth demanding the blood sacrifice of children (an accusation equally carried by Roman and Israeli writers against the Punics).
Your sense of history is unbalanced with an agenda based on turning the formally oppressed into the new oppressors. That has never resulted in liberation. It continues to fail African tribes to this day carrying out thousand year old blood feuds against one another. It has failed to advance people following that policy of genocide and persecution adopted in the Middle East in the early 600s AD. Consider the treatment of the Nestori, Zarthushti, Yazidi, etc. The reason Western Civilization stands accusable of anything is because it practices self-critical analysis. This does not exist outside of Zarthushti-Judeo-Christian heritage and those it has heavily influenced historically.

HawkofStorms · Apr 23, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

/facepalm

Why isn't this closed already? All this talk about the evils of Nazism and all these other dumb metaphors to a.net are getting out of hand.
They are acting no different from any other online game company. Get over yourselves.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 23, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

/facepalm

Why isn't this closed already? All this talk about the evils of Nazism and all these other dumb metaphors to a.net are getting out of hand.
They are acting no different from any other online game company. Get over yourselves.

Funny, that - in several dozen games played by members of the Gaming Clan I am in no one seems to be comparing this to a regular practice by some other game. Perhaps, holding people accountable for things they cannot know, in languages they do not speak fluently or natively, with inuendos that are not available in any normal dictionary or classroom text, hundreds of miles away, under transliterations that are questionable, with a lack of multi-lingual support text (or even IPA), when they are unable to identify the parts of speech themselves, and especially when the name banned was not pruriant in the language it was meant to be understood in is just a little outside of the normal behavior of other games. But even assuming it was normal behavior, that is no reason NC West should not hold itself to a higher standard.

Tullzinski · Apr 24, 2009, 02:47 PM // 14:47

LOL in light of the update I know why I never got an answer to clean up your own house.

Cheaper to report youself, take the 72 hour ban and get your named changed for free.

Maybe ANET will start to charge us for a name change due to a report violation. 15 bucks to fix a naming infraction account locked until you pay...

Fril Estelin · Apr 24, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

Cheaper to report youself

They're not stupid enough not to be able to detect that. Honestly. Reporting yourself. Come on.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 24, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

LOL in light of the update I know why I never got an answer to clean up your own house.

Cheaper to report youself, take the 72 hour ban and get your named changed for free.

Maybe ANET will start to charge us for a name change due to a report violation. 15 bucks to fix a naming infraction account locked until you pay...

Now that is scarily hilarious!